Posts by Island Man

50

If turned off by the GB's latest bloopers- do you still have faith in God and Christ?

by the-Question in

some go back to churchianity!.

and that, to me, indicates they never had real faith in god- but it was in men.....

Island Man

Actually, it is the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses that culticly equates faith in men - faith themselves - with faith in God and Christ. They tell JWs to "trust the faithful and discreet slave completely because Christ trusts them completely", or words to that effect, which is actually a load of nonsense when you consider the fact that christ also warns of the possibility of the slave turning out to be an evil slave.

Anyone who leaves the JW organization gets accused of leaving Jehovah - even though the person remains a bible-believing christian, living a decent life. Faith in the JW organization and it's leadership is regularly and implicitly equated with worship of and faith in, God. Thus the JW religion is built on faith in men, falsely packaged and labeled as faith in God.

So I find it rather ridiculous that this OP accuses those leaving the organization of having faith in men when the fact of the matter is that the JW religion makes it a practice to indoctrinate its members to have faith in men - their clergy class which they call 'the faithful and discreet slave'.

44

Thoughts on African Americans and Slavery

by Simon in

let's start by saying that slavery is of course a terrible thing, one of the worst crimes imaginable, and that "slavery" rarely implies good treatment, anything noble or defensible.

nowadays, even god doesn't escape judgement from our enlightened views with passages about slavery in the bible usually glossed over because they are shameful.. but not all slavery was equal.. because of the media, movie industry, racial tensions in the us regularly shown on the news and our taught history, i think most people's knowledge and idea of slavery is that of the north atlantic slave trade where white people took africans to work in cotton fields.

this idea is probably also re-enforced because the largest group of descendents of slaves we see today are african americans (usually in the us or places they subsequently migrated to).. but it's incomplete.. it's only when you look into it more that you discover that there was much more to the slave trade than that, otherwise it would have been just called "the slave trade" and not "the north atlantic slave trade".. some 12.5 million slaves were taken from africa to the us with just under 11 million surviving the trip so it obviously took a terrible toll immediately, even before any maltreatment once they landed in the americas where conditions and treatment were truly awful.

Island Man

I think slavery is also one of the reasons why athletics is dominated by people of African descent in the Americas. Only the fittest slaves were able to survive the journey across the Atlantic. But even before the journey started, the kidnapped slaves were examined physically and any showing undesirable traits were rejected. Then after they came to the Americas, many slave owners engaged in selective breeding practices, having fittest men impregnate the fittest women to ensure they get good strong slaves. So the whole process of slavery served to weed out weaker genes and proliferate those that ensured greater strength and stamina. So this, I believe, is the reason why most of the successful athletes in the sprints are descendants of slaves living in the Americas.

39

Why the resurrection must be true

by slimboyfat in

okay i was thinking about it.

and it is a transhumanist argument and nothing new, i do realise that before anyone points it out.

but it struck me afresh today that the resurrection must happen.. firstly, to state the obvious, a rational materialist conception of reality seems to exclude resurrection.

Island Man

Physical cloning is impossible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owPC60Ue0BE

21

God wants to remain unidentified

by anointed1 in

1) books supposedly written by god contain errors.

2) people supposedly appointed by god make human rights violations.

and god does not prevent those things from happening.

Island Man

"It means He wants to remain unidentified. Yet this does not mean He is not interested in providing guidance to us."

Really? Really?! Come on! Can't you see the contradiction? Can't you see the desperate special pleading you're stooping to? A god who hides from his creation leaving them to flounder in confusion and fall victim to the wiles of charlatans who use "faith" to deceive them, is not a god worthy of worship and is worst than an absent father who never visits his children!

60

Now I'm Convinced There Probably Is No God

by pale.emperor in

yesterday i made a visit to the museum in my city.

the top floor is the planetarium, which has a connecting room with a huge dome ceiling where they project lessons and lectures and you have a 360 view of the night sky etc.. this particular lecture explained about our galaxy, and how it's only one of billions in the universe.

and then we learned about each planet, some of their moons and the sun.

Island Man

UFO-ists (what's the correct term here?)

Ufologists.

53

My Dad wants to study with me

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

so my parents continue to pester me about getting baptized.

the other day my dad told me that i was old enough to make a decision, and was wondering why i wasn't ready (assembly is in a few weeks) so i told him calmly that i have many doubts and if i were to get baptized it has to be 100 percent my idea.

he was a little annoyed by this, and now wants to study the "is there a creator that cares about you" book (which is complete bs) with me.

Island Man

Start a very calm and respectful conversation with your Dad along the lines of freedom of religion. Get him to tell you/agree that baptism is a choice that has to be made freely without any form of coercion or pressure. Maybe even mention the bad example of some people - of other religions - forcing their children into their religion against their will. Get the May 2009 Awake (hope I have the right issue date) that says persons should not be forced to join a religion and that persons should not be made to choose between their beliefs and their family.

After you have done all that very calmly and respectfully tell him that you have given the subject of baptism a lot of thought and come to the decision that you do not wish to get baptized, and ask him to please respect and accept your decision since he already stated that you're old enough to make a decision and he has already indicated (from the foregoing conversation) that he accepts you have the right to freedom of religion and should not face any form of coercion to be baptized or penalties for refusing to do so, because parents that truly respect their children's right to choose would not engage in such actions, and you have confidence that he's not such a parent - based on the foregoing conversation.

If he asks you why you don't want to get baptized, just very calmly tell him that you do not wish to discuss it as he may perceive what you have to say as attacking his religion and he will get upset. Tell him you respect his right to be a JW and you're not out to discourage him or destroy his faith so you rather keep your reasons to yourself so as not to upset him in any way. You only want him to respect your decision and your freedom of choice to not become a JW, just as you respect his right to be JW.

33

Which bible translation do you think is best and most acurate?

by NikL in

jw
friends

for those that still care to read the bible of course.

those that don't, please keep the snarky comments to yourselves :-).

i am assuming nwt is not very popular?.

Island Man

The best translation is the one that you make yourself after studying the dead languages that the bible was written in. Failing that, look for a translation that was done by a secular linguist, based purely on language principles.

The worst translations are ones made by religious organizations as they always try to inject their own theological beliefs into the translation; or at the very least, they let their theological preconceptions influence their choice of wording, often leading to the use of very obscure secondary meanings of words being employed instead of the normal meaning. The NWT is a perfect example of this.

39

THE WATCHTOWER (STUDY EDITION) APRIL 2017.....Scare tactics

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

the watchtower (study edition) april 2017 .

“you must pay your vows to jehovah.”—matt.

5:33.. * to all intents and purposes, he presented himself as one who was wholly dedicated to god.

Island Man

"When I bring up to still in friends about the worst case of abuse in the UK, Eunice Spry, who abused 4 children for 19 years, they say she was not a Jehovah,s Witness (like she was just pretending)..."

When they say that you can reply by saying that all the so-called Catholic priests found guilty of molesting children were not really Catholics but were just pretending; and the members of the Catholic hierarchy who participated in covering it up are also not real Catholics. All the sins of the Catholic church were committed by "false brothers" who weren't real Catholics.

When they use stupid, special pleading reasoning to excuse their sins and wickedness, use the same reasoning right back at them to excuse the sins and wickedness of "christendom" and "babylon the great" so they can see how stupid and hypocritical they are being.

27

OK who threw the stink bomb in here?

by Thisismein1972 in

come on a believer, everyone knows it was you so own up to it and teacher will not be cross!.

this is exactly what seems to be happening, a believer runs in drops the stink bomb and runs out again...only to pear around the door when he/she deems it safe to do so.

😅😅😅.

Island Man

I said I've been in the Truth my whole life but didn't research other religions beliefs until a couple weeks ago. The JW makes the most sense to me because of my understanding of the Bible.

The reason why JW beliefs make the most sense to you is, not necessarily because they're true, but because your brain has already been shaped and biased by JW interpretations of scripture and JW reasoning due to your being in "the Truth" your whole life. I suspect that you are simply incapable of making a truly objective and unbiased examination of other beliefs without judging them by your own JW thinking that is deeply ingrained in you. So ultimately you're engaging in a form of circular reasoning (or circular judgment) where you judge all religions based on JW reasoning with the result that, not surprisingly, the JWs end up seeming to you like the one that makes the most sense.

This is not unique to you or JWs, by the way. The same situation applies to persons brought up in other religions. Polytheistic religions like Hinduism never seems to make sense to deeply entrenched monotheists like Muslims, for example. The reason for this is not that monotheism is inherently more logical but only that the Muslim mind has been shaped to think of the divine as being necessarily monotheistic. But no Muslim or monotheist can give a logical argument for why there has to be only one God, without citing their own religious texts and thus exposing their bias of judging religions based on what they've been taught by their own religion, instead of truly looking at the matter in an objective, logical manner.

3

Are JWs as eager to accept voluntary disassociation by minor JWs as they are to baptize them?

by Island Man in

we all know that the organization shamelessly pushes for youth baptism, even encouraging parents to withhold driver's licenses from driving-aged teens unless they get baptized.

i've been asking myself: since they are wiling to accept minor baptisms, are they also willing to accept letters of disassociation signed by young minors?.

i ask this because it seems to me that a signed letter of resignation has a greater "air of legality" to it than baptism, because its a signed document just as most contracts are signed documents.

Island Man

We all know that the organization shamelessly pushes for youth baptism, even encouraging parents to withhold driver's licenses from driving-aged teens unless they get baptized. I've been asking myself: since they are wiling to accept minor baptisms, are they also willing to accept letters of disassociation signed by young minors?

I ask this because it seems to me that a signed letter of resignation has a greater "air of legality" to it than baptism, because its a signed document just as most contracts are signed documents. So I suspect that many more JWs will be inclined to say that minors are not mature enough to disassociate, than would say they're not mature enough to be baptized.

But that position would be hypocritical because disassociation is essentially the equal opposite of baptism so if they think a kid is mature enough to be baptized they should equally accept the kid's decision to disassociate without questioning whether or not he/she is mature enough to take such action.

What do you think would happen if an 11 year old baptized JW handed in a letter of disassociation? Will the elders accept it and respect the kid's decision; or will they discard it and get the parents to "rein him/her in"? What's the youngest age you know of a JW disassociating?